Category: The Dish

Michael Goldfarb on the debate:

William Ayers, Rev. Wright, flag pin, patriotism, bittergate…and almost no health care. It’s been very entertaining. And when it turned to Israel, Obama gave an atrociously vague and willy nilly answer. Of course he can’t guarantee a nuclear response, but he could have, like Hillary, invoked the phrase ‘massive retaliation.’ He was struggling to parse the language, but who’s going to hold it against him if he gets a little carried away talking about what he’d do if Iran nuked Israel. If Obama can overcome his terrible performance tonight, then there’s nothing that can stop him. Because after the blowback from the left tomorrow, no debate moderator will ever dare to go after him like this again. Wiilliam Ayers? If the Factor had moderated the debate I don’t think he would have gone there.

In the 90s, a group of conceptual artists used polling data to determine music’s most unappealing aspects and then combined all those aspects together. A description of the finished product:

The most unwanted music is over 25 minutes long, veers wildly between loud and quiet sections, between fast and slow tempos, and features timbres of extremely high and low pitch, with each dichotomy presented in abrupt transition. The most unwanted orchestra was determined to be large, and features the accordion and bagpipe (which tie at 13% as the most unwanted instrument), banjo, flute, tuba, harp, organ, synthesizer (the only instrument that appears in both the most wanted and most unwanted ensembles). An operatic soprano raps and sings atonal music, advertising jingles, political slogans, and "elevator" music, and a children’s choir sings jingles and holiday songs. The most unwanted subjects for lyrics are cowboys and holidays, and the most unwanted listening circumstances are involuntary exposure to commercials and elevator music. Therefore, it can be shown that if there is no covariance–someone who dislikes bagpipes is as likely to hate elevator music as someone who despises the organ, for example–fewer than 200 individuals of the world’s total population would enjoy this piece.

Listen to it here. It made me laugh out loud.

Henry Farrell compares seeing John Paul in Ireland in 1979 to seeing Benedict yesterday:

I was struck by the similarities between the 1979 Popemobile and the 2008 version – either the engineers haven’t much imagination, or there isn’t all that much you can do to improve the basic design (although I don’t remember the original having bulletproof glass). Nor was the 1979 experience complicated by evangelical Christians with bullhorns vigorously denouncing ‘false religion’ and telling the cheering nuns and folks in Pope Benedict t-shirts that they were all going to go to hell unless they were born again in Christ.

Brendan Loy sees one coming. I have no idea. It was not a good night for Obama. But it may turn out worse for those out to get him. The online polls show Obama winning, for what they’re worth.

Matt:

I had thought the Clinton campaign couldn’t sink any lower, but thus far she’s really just been giving us the full GOP. Listening to her talk about Barack Obama is like reading a Weekly Standard blog post.

Josh Marshall:

Looking around other sites, I guess I’m not the only one that thought this debate was unmitigated travesty. Maybe the embargo on debate rebroadcast was a pro-human rights stand.

Dave Weigel:

I don’t think the 40-minute early Obama pile-on was bad for him. I think the following round, where he seemed rattled and reliant on his script, was bad for him.

To believe it’s worth junking the Clintons and giving him the nomination, a Democrat needs to think Obama is at least as resilient as Hillary. And he can take the attacks, but he can’t get past them.

Taylor Marsh:

The truth is that Gibson and Stephanopolous asked questions that have been on people’s minds, but nobody else in the media had the spine to bring up.

Mark Hemingway:

And the winner is…McCain in a landslide!

(Photo: Clinton and ABC News, by Robyn Beck/Getty.)

Figures. Confirmation here. A former Clinton staffer – someone who owes his entire career to the Clintons – asks her opponent questions devised by Sean Hannity:

Stephy said he was writing down all the info Sean gave him.

I think Fox News would have done a better job. But then I cannot imagine anyone doing a worse job.

That’s the number on ABC News comment site. I have found one positive one so far. I predict a big surge in Obama donations after tonight. He did badly, but that wasn’t the story. She did better to my mind on the stage (others disagree) but Clinton tends to do better off-stage when she seems the victim of unfair attacks. Tonight, she was channeling Lee Atwater. I have no idea what the actual impact of this fiasco will be, but I know it made me realize how deep the MSM rot goes.

I agree largely with Ambers:

Keeping the score card, there’s no way this debate could have fared worse for Barack Obama. Nearly 45 minutes of relentless political scrutiny from the ABC anchors and from Hillary Clinton, followed by an issues-and-answers session in which his anger carried over and sort of neutered him. But Hillary Clinton has a Reverse-Teflon problem: her negatives are up, and when she’s perceived as the attacker, the attacks never seem to settle on Obama and always seem to boomerang back on her. So it would be unwise to declare that Hillary "won" the debate in the dynamic sense just yet. (How much money will Obama raise off this debate? $3m million? $4 million?)

It was a lifeless, exhausted, drained and dreary Obama we saw tonight. I’ve seen it before when he is tired, but this was his worst performance yet on national television. He seemed crushed and unable to react. This is big-time politics and he’s up against the Clinton wood-chipper. But there is no disguising the fact that he wilted, painfully. Clinton has exposed herself in this campaign as one of the worst shells of a cynical pol in American politics. She doesn’t just return us to the Morris-Rove era, she represents a new height for it. If she somehow wins, it will be a triumph of the old politics in an age when that is exactly what this country cannot afford. But Obama has also shown a failure to be resilient in this grueling process. In some ways, I’m glad. No normal reasonable person subjected to the series of attacks on his integrity, faith, patriotism, decency and honesty would not wilt. And we need a normal reasonable person in the White House again. But this is still the arena we have. It is what it is. ABC News is what it is. The MSM knows no other way. Obama has to survive and even thrive under this assault if he is to win. He failed tonight in a big way.

And so this was indeed a huge night for the Republicans, and the first real indicator to me that Clinton is gaining in her fundamental goal at this point: the election of John McCain against Barack Obama. How else will she rescue the Democrats from hope?

If you are any guide, this was a debacle for the network. One reader:

This debate was disgusting. But, it only motivated me more and made me realize how very important it is that Obama and the politics that he represents wins this election. I don’t make much, but ABC just convinced me to make another small donation to Senator Obama.

And, as a side note, it seems like it would’ve been better to have had George Will moderate the debate. I have much more faith in his fairness and concern with policy than what these two just put forward.

Another:

This debate was the biggest sham I’ve ever seen. The first hour was nothing but substance-less nonsense, soft ball questions and prattle.

Another:

The best part of this "debate" (likely the worst I’ve ever seen) just occurred a few minutes ago when the audience booed Charlie. I can’t believe I just sat through 2 hours of that.

How many debate moderators actually get booed on live television? That’s how bad it was. Another:

You can tell Gibson and Stephanopoulous are out of touch. They both don’t have to worry about health care. It’s why not a single question was asked about the issue that I care about so deeply, and instead hours were spent discussing the inane and insane. As an American who can’t find a job because of my health care problems, I’m ashamed of ABC News.

Stephanopoulos was schooled in Morris-Rove politics. Under the tutelage of Hillary Clinton and James Carville. I repeat the obvious:

"No questions on the environment, none on terror, none on interrogation, none on torture, none on education, none on spending, none on healthcare, none on Iran … but four separate questions in the first hour about a lapel-pin, Bitter-gate, Wright-gate and Ayers. I’m all for keeping candidates on their toes. But this was ridiculous. And now we have affirmative action? Again, it’s not illegitimate as such – but the only reason it is asked is to try and trip these people up and make Gibson and Stephanopoulos look smart."

Yes, Clinton narrowly bested Obama. But all you could see was the trainwreck of the network. Don’t you miss the League Of Women Voters?

9.51 pm. The big winner is John McCain. Then Clinton who seemed at least awake. Then Obama whose calm was nonetheless trumped by obvious exhaustion. Yes, the Clintons have shredded him. But that’s what they know how to do. It’s also what the GOP knows how to do. Obama has got to get used to this and find a way to withstand it and fight back without enabling the very cynicism it represents. That’s not easy, and we are discovering if he has it in him. Tonight he looked and felt depleted beyond measure. Which is when his supporters have to take the weight. The loser was ABC News: one of the worst media performances I can remember – petty, shallow, process-obsessed, trivial where substantive, and utterly divorced from the actual issues that Americans want to talk about. At the end of the debate, it appeared that the crowd was actually heckling Gibson. "The crowd is turning on me!" complained Gibson. He has no idea. But he will soon enough. 9.49 pm. The closers: Clinton went into rote mode. They both need a rest. Obama’s final words were great: against spin and PR and in favor of an honest conversation at a dire moment in history. It makes you realize that among the forces that have to be defeated if such a conversation is to take place will be the kind of "journalism" we have been forced to endure tonight.
9.44 pm. If you want to let ABC News know how you feel about this "debate", here’s the link. 9.38 pm. A reader notes:

You understate how silly the constitutional snippets are. The first snippet, awarding the vice-presidency to the runner-up in electoral votes, was superseded by the Twelfth Amendment!

And Gibson made it the basis for a question if my memory serves! 9.32 pm. No questions on the environment, none on terror, none on interrogation, none on torture, none on education, none on spending, none on healthcare, none on Iran … but four separate questions in the first hour about a lapel-pin, Bitter-gate, Wright-gate and Ayers. I’m all for keeping candidates on their toes. But this was ridiculous. And now we have affirmative action? Again, it’s not illegitimate as such – but the only reason it is asked is to try and trip these people up and make Gibson and Stephanopoulos look smart. 9.28 pm. A reader writes:

Has Obama’s message of a new vision of politics ever looked more attractive than after this display?

9.24 pm. Am I the only one to find these Constitution snippets lame beyond belief? Talk about a failure of imagination. We’re learning that the networks cannot actually handle these debates any more. Cable did them so much more effectively. 9.20 pm. Obama’s convoluted capital gains tax answer was a brutal reminder to folks like me that he is indeed a redistributionist, and someone who seems to see the tax system as a way to decide what people "deserve" to have and keep. Ugh. Of course, Clinton isn’t much better, but that Obama answer was dreadful. He’s having an awful night; Clinton hasn’t helped herself much either. It’s a huge night for the Republicans. If McCain went up against either of these two in the form they have shown tonight, he’d win. Obama’s performance is the worst in months. But, given the quality of the questions, you can see why. Still … not good at all. 9.15 pm. The longest section on policy so far, in the age of terror, debt, and torture … is about the capital gains tax. And Gibson is clearly trying to get both of them to say something that can subsequently be turned into a gaffe or a GOP talking point. There have been almost no clear, substantive policy questions designed to elicit real information.

9.11 pm. Check out the ABC News comments section. The viewers appear mad as hell at this pathetic shell-game. They should be. Money quote:

My pet snake would be a better moderator than the two dopes ABC has supposedly running this debate! After an hour, we get to a legitimate question??!!! HORRIBLE JOB ABC!!! Just plain HORRIBLE!!!!!

9.07 pm. Jonah:

I think a lot of those Republican talking points are valid and legitimate. But if I were a "fighting Dem" who thinks all of these topics are despicable distractions from the "real issues," I would find this debate to be nothing but Republican water-carrying.

I don’t think all such questions are irrelevant. But the massive emphasis on them for half of this debate has been staggering. My prediction is that many, many viewers will be furious at ABC News. Even on the substantive issues, which they have finally begin to discuss, the questions are all of the "gotcha" variety. The biggest winner so far is the GOP. The biggest loser: ABC News. 9 pm. Clinton will disappoint her neoconservative supporters by such a strong, unequivocal commitment to withdrawal from Iraq. She is, of course, lying. But she does it so well. They both seem exhausted at this point. But she has the capacity to run on fumes. This is all she lives for. Obama seems off-balance and drained. All I’m learning from this debate so far is that both need a rest and that ABC News is utterly out of touch with their viewers. 8.55 pm. A reader writes:

This debate is beyond disgusting. The triviality of this whole production from the intro segment to the nature of questions is just gross. There’s no decency or dignity to any of this. "Clinton versus Obama." Is this a sporting event?

Yes, it is. And a ratings event. Barely journalism. The worst display by the MSM in this campaign so far. It took a network, I guess, to plunge this low.

8.53 pm. They’re actually asking a question about the war. Remember that?

8.44 pm. Ambers: "Even Clinton advisers can’t believe that ABC asked about wearing the flag on his lapel."

I have to say I am actually shocked at the appallingly poor quality of the questions: the worst of the campaign so far. Pure MSM process bullshit. Again: it’s now halfway through and there has not been a single question on the economy, foreign policy, healthcare, terrorism, Iraq or any other actual policy issue in this campaign. How much longer can ABC News avoid the actual policy issues in this election?

8.40 pm. Now, it’s flag-pins! I’m just pointing out that we are now almost halfway through this debate and ABC News has not asked a single policy question. It’s pure Rove, sustained and hyped and sustained by Stephanopoulos and Gibson. It’s what they know; it’s easy; and it will generate ratings. It is not journalism.

8.33 pm. So far, neither Gibson nor Stephanopoulos have asked a single policy-related question. They seem utterly uninterested in foreign or domestic policy. After the past eight years, we have had half an hour with nothing but process questions. Gibson and Stephanopoulos are clearly part of the problem in this election and part of what has to be reformed.

8.32 pm. She mentions Hamas! So far, this debate is pure MSM elite issues. And Rove.

8.31 pm. What kind of question asks a candidate to determine another person’s patriotism? When that person served his country in Vietnam?

8.27 pm. On Wright, again her shamelessness helps her. His affect is total exhaustion, alas, as if being pummeled with every Rovian tactic has beaten the life out of him. And he is being pummeled by the ABC hosts as well. One reason I like the guy is that he is still human; politics hasn’t killed his soul.

8.21 pm. Obama gains a little momentum back, by tackling the bitter issue head-on. By reminding Clinton of her "cookies" gaffe and taking the high road with respect to her on Rovism, Obama also scored. Especially among Democrats who once sided with the Clintons. Her parsing to say she wasn’t criticizing him but his marks are belied by her ads which she approved specifically demonizing Obama himself. Those ads are still in constant rotation in Pennsylvania.

8.15 pm. Because she’s shameless, she’s doing better. The appropriation of small-town life as part of her autobiography was a particularly brilliant touch. She was much subtler than her ads have been, or than she has been when she isn’t looking at Obama. And that "Yes, yes, yes," to Obama’s capacity to beat McCain was painful.

8.10 pm. That opening silence was priceless. But he seems exhausted. Since she has had her humanity surgically removed, she seems less so.

8.06 pm. Both opening statements total blather. But she looks a little more comfortable.

(Photo: a Clinton supporter at a Bill Clinton event in Pitanning, Pennsylvania. By Jeff Swensen/Getty.)