Unpersuasive Arguments Are Actually at a Disadvantage

by Conor Friedersdorf

Awhile back, I published an open letter to Jonah Goldberg asking him why he believes that if the right returns to power things will turn out better than last time. Contra the conservative base, I argued, the ills of the Bush Administration weren't due to moderate Republicans like Olympia Snowe or Arlen Specter, but to the folks actually pushing the reckless spending and corrupt culture — partisan conservatives like Karl Rove and Tom Delay who are never called RINOs or fake conservatives, despite crafting and passing the agenda that the Tea Party right is now furious about.

I wrote as someone who wants to vote for a resurgent, functional conservatism, but I think the only way you get there is by routing out intellectual and financial corruption within the movement, developing a successful strategy for actually governing if you’re elected, tempering ideology with pragmatism, and obliterating the impulse to sycophantic partisan loyalty that did so much harm during the Bush Administration. For this reason, even as President Obama pushes a domestic agenda that I'd like to temper, I see dissidents on the right as key to its future.

All this is brought back to mind by this post. In a complaint about The Week magazine, Mr. Goldberg writes:

I generally like the magazine. But it has a very annoying bullpen of columnists. This is not to say all the columnists are annoying, merely the line-up. Bob Shrum is the worst of the bunch — by far. He is relentlessly hackish. Nearly every column is a tendentious spin job (See today's, for example), that is better suited as a posting at the DNC if not the Democratic Underground. Democrats are always right, facts be damned. Republicans are always stupid and/or evil, facts be damned.

They often seem to pair Shrum with David Frum. The problem is that, whatever your disagreements with David may be, he is no right-wing version of Bob Shrum. Not even close. David is an unpredictable pundit. Of late, he has made it his project to go after the GOP and the conservative base of the party. Often — quite often — his arguments score more legitimate points against the Right than Shrum's ever could.

What bothers me is that this strikes me as a classic example of the elite liberal media's idea of "balance." PBS's Newshour is another such example: One unapologetic lefty — say, Mark Shields — versus something of an apologetic righty, say David Gergen or David Brooks. The thinking seems to be: Highly partisan liberals are insightful and so are conservatives who think the highly partisan liberals have a point.

Then there's the rest of the bullpen. Will Wilkinson is in there and I think that's good, because smart libertarians deserve more mainstream venues. But Will loathes partisan politics and has a what I think is fair to say an unhealthy contempt for the GOP and conservatism proper. For even more "balance," they include Daniel Larison. I don't read his columns often and — surprise — I hear much, much less about the guy now that Bush is out of office. But he is hardly a defender of mainstream conservatism or the GOP.

Interesting that Mr. Goldberg seems to assume that this disadvantages the right. I've never read a Bob Shrum column, but presuming for the sake of argument that his writing is "tendentious spin" suited to the Democratic Underground, it doesn't sound very convincing! Having read a lot of David Frum's writing, I can attest that it is often insightful, and conducive to the sort of robust discourse political movements require if they're to test assumptions, generate new ideas, etc. When Mr. Goldberg says that Mr. Frum's arguments score points against the right, he sees it as a handicap, but isn't it actually the case that "points scored against the right" presumes that the right had something wrong? Aren't those points that we should be eager to see scored?

"What bothers me is that this strikes me as a classic example of the elite liberal media's idea of 'balance,'" Mr. Goldberg writes. "The thinking seems to be: Highly partisan liberals are insightful and so are conservatives who think the highly partisan liberals have a point." That seems like a weird way to characterize Daniel Larison or Will Wilkinson or David Frum, whose critiques of the right spring from their own political convictions, and seldom share any but the most obvious criticisms with highly partisan liberal propagandists. 

And as it happens, I am far more bothered — and the right is far more disadvantaged — when the opposite situation arises: when, for example, The New York Times chooses as its conservative voice Bill Kristol, who phones in unpersuasive partisan talking points for the duration of his tenure, or when the Washington Post has Sarah Palin as the right's representative on climate change, though her piece couldn't possibly persuade anyone who didn't already agree with it, rather than Jim Manzi, who concedes points to liberal interlocutors when facts justify doing so, and persuasively offers counterarguments and alternative perspectives that benefit from actually being logically sound.

Perhaps Mr. Goldberg's post was actually a call for The Week to keep on David Frum, Will Wilkinson, and Daniel Larison, and to pair them with more intellectually honest folks from the left — let them square off against Kevin Drum, Brad Plumber and Kerry Howley. I'd certainly welcome the change, since I am ultimately interested in good journalism and a robust public discourse than short term partisan advantages, but it sure seems like Mr. Goldberg was bemoaning the absence of a right-wing version of Bob Shrum. Am I wrong?

Is America Turning Isolationist?

by Patrick Appel

Larison says no:

[T]here is something of a backlash against aggressive interventionism, but it is not as powerful as I would have expected it to be after the last eight years and it does not mean that America is turning inward…When 63% from the same [Pew] survey say that America is justified in using force against Iran in the event that it acquires a nuclear weapon, we can pretty safely say that this is not a nation attracted to policies of neutrality and non-intervention.

Lieberman sticks the shiv in

by Andrew Sprung

Really bad news for the Democrats' health care reform efforts on Sunday – specifically, for the compromises worked out over the last week:

In a surprise setback for Democratic leaders, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, said on Sunday that he would vote against the health care legislation in its current form.

The bill's supporters had said earlier that they thought they had secured Mr. Lieberman's agreement to go along with a compromise they worked out to overcome an impasse within the party.

But on Sunday, Mr. Lieberman told the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, to scrap the idea of expanding Medicare and to abandon the idea of any new government insurance plan, or lose his vote.

Since Olympia Snowe has also come out against the Medicare expansion, it would appear that the Gang of 10's compromise is dead and that a bill can't get through the Senate with either a public option or Medicare expansion. Unless Lieberman makes one more grandstanding reversal. Or all of Barack Obama's courting of Snowe pays off somehow.  Or Susan Collins has an epiphany. Or someone resigns abruptly and Santa is appointed to the Senate.  Perhaps there's a glimmer of hope that a good CBO score would give one 'moderate' cover to reverse course on the Medicare expansion.

Personally, I'd rather the Democrats cave to Snowe's conditions than Lieberman's. With regard to Holy Joe, there's really nothing to say that Steve Benan and Ezra Klein haven't reiterated and documented  about his intellectually dishonest, factually inaccurate, self-contradictory, self-serving, grandstanding opposition to the public option and his faux fiscal rectitude (see Benan here, Klein here and here ). This morning, Jonathan Cohn traces Lieberman's double-dealing and personal reversal specifically on the Medicare buy-in.

For the record, Jonathan Chait called  Lieberman's brewing betrayal back on Oct. 27.

The Weekend Wrap

Over the weekend the White House and Senator Grassley joined the growing chorus of voices against the Uganda bill – though a brave Uganda lesbian beat them to it. Annise Parker, who is gay, became mayor of Houston – the nation's 4th largest city.

In home news, Andrew took a much deserved break from the blog; he'll be off for a week. Andrew Sprung introduced himself to the Dish and Conor Friedersdorf returned to guest-blogging. Patrick exposed the men behind the Dish curtain, which disillusioned many readers. Sprung rounded up commentary on the Afghan timeline and corralled coverage of the burning Khamenei photo. Friedersdorf, along with John McWhorter, addressed the Tiger Woods scandal. Conor also discussed a discussion by Hitchens and Wright over terrorist blowback. And Patrick shared his thoughts about the President.

In prurient postings, Jonathan Littell won the worst sex writing award, Christina Davidson talked to a prostitute, and Reebok leered at a lady. In Sunday musings, Julian Sanchez and Dish readers philosophized over free will while William Deresiewicz and some readers mulled over the meaning of friendship. We wrapped up our week-long discussion of the Greatest Generation here, here, and here.

— C.B.

On Human Cloning

Baby
by Patrick Appel 

 A reader writes:

It's a shame you agree with Leon Kass on anything, let alone his arguments against cloning. When you say you'd feel differently if "cloning no more dangerous than natural reproduction," it makes me suspicious you have a rose-tinted view of the process. People often assume much lower rates of miscarriage and birth defects, thereby giving a false impression that natural reproduction is already a "safe" behavior. In reality, it's the best version we have so far. Any bioethicist with a shred of decency argues that human cloning should obviously not occur until it is proven not just as safe as, but safer than natural pregnancy among animal test subjects. Natural processes are akin to Churchill's perspective on democracy: it's the worst form reproduction except for every other that has been tried. Cloning requires an intimate knowledge of natural processes. In fact, it requires such complex and nuanced understanding that the research required to create a successful, completely healthy clone of any kind would provide scientists with the knowledge necessary to make reproduction of all forms safer.

Yes, human cloning should not even be attempted until the mechanisms are understood and it can be done with a very high degree of safety. But that is not what Caplan is critiquing when he picks apart Kass' argument. Kass' uses the spaghetti method, tossing fist fulls of arguments at the wall until something sticks. Some people it is his repugnance argument (which Caplan dismantles) that connects, while for others, like yourself, its the "pain and suffering argument." This latter argument sounds like a reasonable critique to cloning until one realizes that it is a legitimate critique for any medical procedure. It is why the FDA exists and why scientists go through phased testing, to minimize pain and suffering at all costs while still moving forward with a beneficial and useful procedure. To presume cloning would somehow be exempt is naive. In all likelihood, the whole situation is a false threat anyway. The benefits of cloning someone exactly are small, while the benefits of the knowledge acquired while learning how to clone someone exactly are enormous. Organ transplants, genetic engineering, stem cells and a host of other branches of medical research are watching the progress made in cloning hoping for research that can be cross-applied.

I suggest you pick up a copy of Ronald Bailey's Liberation Biology. A less developed version of the argument he makes in the book appears here.

Points taken. (Image: Roslan Rahman/AFP/Getty Images)

2010

by Patrick Appel

Josh Marshall provides some early handicapping:

My own take at the moment is that the Dems are in for a really tough election but that Republicans are also indulging in a lot of wishful thinking. Two factors — whether Health Care passes and whether there's significant improvement in the economy by next summer — will decide things, not any amount of strategery and messaging.

“Nothing Is More Poignant”

by Chris Bodenner

The Ugandan Daily Monitor runs a front-page profile of Val Kalende, a lesbian who refuses to cow to the threat of life imprisonment, or even death, at the hands of the state:

The Sunday before last, Val Kalende listened quietly as her pastor’s sermon digressed into aKalende soft tirade against homosexuals. “We may even have one in our midst,” the cleric told a congregation of about 50 born-again Christians. If Ms Kalende did not know her pastor to be an honourable man, a father figure, his sudden anti-gay remarks would have left her shifting uncomfortably in her chair, wondering if those dreaded words were meant for her.

In the end, the woman who also serves as a minister, regularly taking her place on the worship team at her church of eight months, chose to let it go. It would not be her last time there.

Continued here. GayUganda is in awe of Kalende:

Val comes out, full face photo. With her partner. And the partner is disguised. Nothing is more poignant. They both are risking their very lives, grabbing the headlines like this, when they can. For, when the bill is passed, this kind of article will not be possible. But, she dared to do it. […] I salute you. Me, who is still hiding in my anonymity, I salute your reckless courage.

Meanwhile, David Bahati – the Ugandan MP who proposed the anti-gay bill – is digging in his heels against mounting pressure from Christian conservatives like Warren, Coburn, and Grassley.

Blowback Matters

by Conor Friedersdorf

Christopher Hitchens debated American foreign policy with Robert Wright on Bloggingheads.tv, a pairing I'm glad to see happen, since Mr. Hitchens is a prominent hawk capable of making an eloquent case for his convictions, and Mr. Wright is an agile thinker whose particular take on the War on Terror is too seldom grappled with in foreign policy debates. I've absorbed it over the course of many Web video segments, dating back to years when my own views were closer to Mr. Hitchens, and I've certainly been persuaded to modify my thinking by his core insight: that a successful counter-terrorism strategy doesn't measure success by the number of terrorists killed, but by the total number of terrorists who harbor ill will toward us. Put another way, American behavior that kills or detains 10 terrorists but inspires 20 people to take up terrorism is an obvious failure.

But! Surely we should persist in championing equality for women and gays even if Islamist terrorists target our society for doing so, Mr. Hitchens counters. Moreover, he says, terror cells are always going to have propaganda for recruiting extremists, even if they make it up.

Mr. Hitchens believes that Islamist radicals would be acting in accordance with their extremist ideology regardless of our behavior, at least assuming that we don't compromise our core beliefs in obviously unacceptable ways. That he is correct, however, is hardly as conclusive as he imagines. Islamist radicals may well be enraged by women without burkas, or hell bent on harming America regardless of our behavior. But Muslim moderates who'll never be radicalized into violent acts by jihadist sermons at a mosque may well find themselves inspired to fight against the United States if instead of offending them somewhat by letting our gays marry, we inadvertently kill their wives and 6-year-old daughters with a cluster bomb, or take naked photos of Muslim men on leashes, or round up innocent Muslims only to detain them without end at Gitmo.

Do you hate the Taliban? Wish them dead, even though you haven't any intention of fighting them yourself? Okay, imagine that you're at a family wedding, and a stray Taliban missile kills everyone in your immediate family, and much of your extended family. Is it more likely that the Army could convince you to embark on a revenge mission?

Of course we shouldn't compromise core Western values to appease terrorists. But those who argue that we must compromise our values to kill terrorists–or launch discretionary wars to eradicate them–must grapple, among other things, with the fact these anti-terror actions sometimes come at a cost of making more terrorists.

Few people if anyone in American politics argue the extreme case that we should never aggressively kill terrorists. But even fewer people who insist that we kill terrorists hedge their recommendations with a realization that indirect, unintended consequences matter.

Keep at it, Mr. Wright.